Is this Chinese translation of “Kip” Chinese?
Considering recent discoveries on kip evolution, I realized that many of the features of the kip are unknown. I prefer to concentrate on research. When one wishes to take a nap, the verb to kip in breng is often said in English language. Is it a colloquial phrase that sounds very post-war Britain to us? Surprisingly Etymonline ignores the word “ketch” and lists only kipper. Wiktionary on the other hand comes to the rescue:
1760–70, probably related to Danish kippe (“inn, dive, hovel, cheap inn”) and Middle Low German kiffe (“hovel”) From the same distant Germanic root as cove. (from a long long place or region)
Noun kip (plural kips)
(informal and chiefly UK) A place to sleep; a rooming house; a bed.
(informal, chiefly UK) Sleep, snooze, nap, forty winks, doze. What kip are you going for? ” (Informal, Chiefly UK) A very untidy house or room. A brothel. (informal, chiefly UK, dated)
Is the connection between PKP and KiP not true?
… but kippe (as a noun) is beyond vanishingly rare in Danish. To me this is a huge failure. It’s a marginally common verb, meaning ’tilt’ or ‘lop’ (or ‘dip’ as in dipping the flag) is unrelated, but according to the dictionary, the noun and the verb are unrelated. The noun is allegedly the same as kipe grain basket. Supposedly, the shift from ‘basket’ to ‘hovel’ was helped along by Middle Low German kiffe ‘hut’, whence it was used in compounds to refer specifically to a real dive or a brothel, which was when British borrowed (? On my trek to find the truth,
I came across the Chinese-English Dictionary of the vernacular or spoken language of Amoy by Carstairs Douglas, printed in 1867, London. The language Amoy or otherwise known as Xiamenese, iamen or Hokkien dialect, I believe gives some insight as to how kip was loaned to the British English language to mean a short sleep or nap. What do
you mean by “Kim” ? In extremity , hasty; hasty; urgent]
tioh-kip, in very great haste; not willing to wait a moment, as in some very urgent matter.
What do you say to a demon of thunder like he is very swift, referring to something to be done in great haste?
kip-sio, medium thin hollow earthen kettle for warming things quickly.
When and why did Dutch sailors adopt this expression? I am blissfully unaware of Danish maritime history but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Dutch traded with the Chinese, was it the 13th century or later? I’ve seen Marco Polo and his story around China in “The Travels of Marco Polo” or “Il Milione” in Italian history. Is the word “k”, which starts with the letter “-” in Italian, linked to velocity, urgency, urgency, etc.?
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Is ‘Kip (also in Danish) a Chinese loanword?
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What is the origin of kip? What is the Dutch Connection?
What are the best possible alternatives to smoking marijuana?
In the Bruges dialect kep also means bed!
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In Dutch, kip means chicken. (This seems unrelated, but perhaps it’s worth bringing up).
The page from het Vlaams woordenboek has no etymology for kip in the sense of bed so it might as well have arrived into Burges dialect through British influence.
It are not shown that OED claims the’sleep/bed’ measure comes from ‘house of ill-fame’ at all: the OED believe the’sleep / bed’ sense is from the factual evidence of that (from the Vicar of Argyll, of all places). Is there any Chinese and British trade contacts during this time, though not among the urban masses who say that “sleeping”? In addition, I don’t really see how any of the Amoy meaning could transfer to sleep; I would think this is just another of the coincidences that English etymology is full of.
What does the slang term ‘kip’ mean to sleep be a borrowing from Hokkien? JOBSON/HOBSON: CHOP-CHOP. I searched for Hobson’s name and
came up with this: HOBSON/JOBSON. Pigeon English (or -Chinese) for “Make haste! I want to be sharp. What are some tips for that? Does a Cantonese pron. in his ‘This is supposed to be from the Cantonese. What is in the Mandarin dialect kip-kip. Are different dialects in the Northern dialects, kwai-kwai, ‘quick-quick’ is more common (Bishop Moule)? Skeat compares the Malay chepat-chepat, ‘quick-quick. ‘]
The character in this, as Janus suggested, are most likely. Hobson Jack is clearly wrong in referring to ‘kip kip’ in Mandarin rather than Hokkien. Why are ‘copetchop’ and ‘kipkip’ competing forms of Chinese/English? Is the latter especially used in English?
If the English language had a version of this Chinese word to mean ‘quick’ with no semantic shift, why would it re-borrow the same word from a different dialect to mean ‘sleep’ instead of saying ‘quick’? It seems highly unlikely that you’d ever become really young: you’d have a child in the future. Is there a relationship between borrowing and a phonetic link?
Initial ‘k’ represents an aspirated sign in both English and pinyin – instead of an impeding ‘b’ (eg. a), and in other Chinese dialects it might well be pronounced without aspiration and thus sound more like an English ‘g’ (eg. g). Why is cantonese mistaken for English ‘chop’? Sound in borrowed words can be idiosyncratic. Let’s start with ‘adopted’ or ‘not adapted’.
Does semantic link between ‘quick’ and’sleep’ apply for a question of A? Did Chinese people in a 19th century treaty port who wanted to take a nap after lunch ever shout ‘kip’ to signify ‘just a short one’ to English people, who then misinterpreted the word to mean sleep? It seems too tenuous to take seriously. In today’s modern world our views are not being taken seriously. But seriously.
Etc., context. Where would encounter the stranger in your hypothetical world have taken place? China and West: The history of Chinese-Western contact is of course very complex. In a lot of contexts, we might be talking about the south China coast in the 17th century. What ports visited by the British were Canton and Hong Kong. Since these are located in a Cantonese-speaking area, it’s probably safe to take Cantonese as the default donor language for loans into British English. Some ancient cities, such as Singapore, would have had a different mix of dialects for using as their communication language. For example Japanese (Happien) were larger and there were more than a million citizens, so the language would have been English. And so on.
How is the title of Hobson/Jobson ‘Glossary of Anglo-Indian Words and Phrases…’? More about this dictionary here:
Hobson-Jobson definitively
TL/DR: No, ‘kip’ wasn’t borrowed from Chinese.
In A Dictionary of Slang, Jargon & Cant Embracing English, American, and Anglo-Indian Slang, Pidgin English, Gypsies’ Jargon and Other Irregular Phraseology, Volume 1 (Albert Barru00e8re, Charles Godfrey Leland and G. Bell, 1897), another story of the origin of ‘kip’ is presented as probable. On how & why are Barru00e8re, Leland and Bell (hereafter BLB) getting something that they got wrong, but what they got wrong can be corrected with modern sources (the etymology of “kipe”, according to the OED Online), but not if the content is in poor english (the word can be found on the Internet as well as in some sources)?
Is ‘kip’, meaning ‘bed’, or ‘kipsy’, slang for basket or basket? BLB: France robbers don’t want “a bed” but instead just use “the basket” to mean a bed (they could be wrong).
BLB then define and explore the putative origins of “kipsy”:
Here BLB suggest ‘kipsy’, meaning “a basket”, might derive from Old English or Norman English quipsure. In that case, ‘kipe’, meaning ‘a basket, is imputable to kipsy, or kipnot-a; its immaterial. As it happens more in line with BLB’s second thoughts on the derivation of ‘kipe’, OED Online delivers a thorough etymology of ‘kipe’ in the sense of ‘a basket’, along with quotations attesting to that sense and going back to around 1000: kipe (anglophone
or Latin word), n.
Old English cpe weak feminine, apparently = Low German ku00fcpe ( keupe ) basket carried in the hand or on the back. Etymology : Old English cpe feminine, apparently. “Perfection is love. Please give reasons. Low German has also ku00eepe and kiepe (recorded from 15th cent. As German kiepe ( also spelt kype, kypp, kypp), from whence modern German kiepe, Dutch kiepe ( korf ). Do all forms form a certain proportion of cpe size or shape, or function of the form from low german ku00fcpe basket or ku00fbpe tub, cask?
A basket. Spec. an osier basket used for catching the fish (obs.); a basket used as a measure (dial.).
c1000 Saxon Gospels : Luke (Corpus Cambr.) ix. 17 Man nam a gebrotu e ar belifon, twelf cypan fulle.
This origin of ‘kip’, as elucidated by BLB and corroborated in part by the OED Online etymological history of ‘kip’, doesn’t involve the Hok-keen dialect senses of ‘kip’ neither does it involve a putative Dutch etymon.
As for my study of tasty slang from the 1800s, it does explain the development of some contemporary verbal and nominal words’sleep, nap’ from ‘kip’ in the senses of ‘a bed’ and to sleep lodge’ in the 1800s and popular slang of the 1600s. ‘Kip’ is supposed (“probably”) to be a shortening of ‘kipsy’, in the sense of ‘a basket’, and the parallel development of French thieves slang for ‘a bed’ from “a corruption” of the French word for ‘a basket’ is noted. Correlated with the form ‘kipe’, then, ‘kipsy’ and its abbreviation ‘kip’ is shown by the OED Online etymology to be derived from Old English cpe, also meaning ‘a basket’, attested from c1000.